Are converts treated differently?

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Permalink Reply by khashba rahla on March 25, 2009 at 9:09pm

Assalam Alaykom wa Rahmatullah Sis Rabi'a


I'm not a convert but this topic caught my eye. Even though this is a converts only section .. sorry! you can delete my post no worries.

Anyways my two cents: One thing i really admire in tareeqa is that the Shaykhs always giving honor to converts mashaAllah for the simple fact that they deserve it. SubhanAllah imagine against all odds they took shahada ... in a time of second Jahiliya where everywhere around them including their own home in some situations, the opposite doctrine is being propagated. They took action and sought out the truth.. they may have hid their faith or may have gone thru great trials. They truly sacrificed in order to become Muslim - all of them. For that reason the Shaykhs always are giving them their due honor and showing their maqaam. MashaAllah the converts are holding onto the faith more than those born into religion. They have so much to teach us and i for one look up to them as beacons of light to try and learn from them and be like them in their thirst for the truth and jumping to act upon what they learn. This is a beautiful attribute mashaAllah and they should be praised and put as an example for all of us, which elhamdulillah the Shuyukh have shown us the wisdom in that.

On the other hand, there are other more extreme groups within Islam that do the exact opposite to newly converted muslims. They tend to look down on them and treat them poorly. They act as though they are higher than them just because they "know" more. They admonish them for not being able to carry all the obligations from the first week. They ostracize them in mosques by speaking only in their native tongue, leaving them excluded and alone. And there's always someone around to criticize them on every little step they take. Slowly these converts begin to feel insecure and unwelcomed and unfortunately some have a crisis of faith. Others try to prove themselves only to find no matter what they do something is missing. Elhamdulillah so many have been saved by Sufism and the love they find through Awliyah and its for that reason that Sufism is so important to saving Westerners from falling into these extreme and abusive hands.

I admire all the beautiful faces i find whenever Mawlana graces us with visits. SubhanAllah just as he always says we are like a beautiful flower garden and each one gives a unique beauty to contribute to the overall ambiance. We celebrate the differences while uniting as one family. Each one has a contribution and the contribution of converts should not be under-estimated. They surely have much to offer and much we all should aspire to mashaAllah!

Ok maybe this was 3 cents.. i need 2 more cents we make a nickel yalla :-p

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Permalink Reply by Rabi'a on March 25, 2009 at 9:35pm

WLAS Sis

You are so right. I think that born Muslims don't really have a clue how hard it is to leave what you are familiar with to go to something new. Forget a new place of worship how about new language new meanings new dress code? Given all this change its a wonder converts don't go nuts. But al hamdulilah they don't because their faith/Iman keeps them, and Allahs love and compassion keeps them. I have personally thought I would just give up when I couldn't learn a prayer, or when I didn't understand fine tuning. Yes, even in Tareeqa you are expected to know. But the difference is, no one mistreats you while you move along the path. There are not enough resources for converts thats for sure, and you never stop learning. I am impressed with people who though new, learn very hard Arabic and Fiqh. But Al hamdulilah Allah doesn't ask for experts he asks for hearts and so he gets them.

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Permalink Reply by Amatullah on March 25, 2009 at 9:55pm

Salam Alaykum. MashAllah Dena, that is exactly what I was thinking when I saw the topic and you expressed yourself so beautifully. I am not a convert either, but I am always so amazed at the journey they makes in the process of reverting. What resilient, beautiful and pure spirits masAllah. We have just so much to learn from them.

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Permalink Reply by Jawad Mustafa Meyer anNaqshbandi on March 26, 2009 at 5:47pm

alhamdulilah dena, thank you for sharing your thoughts. and there is alot to be said on this topic.

it's true that converts sacrifice so much when coming to islam and i don't think that most people born in muslim families understand that this is a process that doesn't happen overnight, and it's difficult. Our families look at us differently, we lose friends, we dress differently, we give up many of our favorite foods (and then when we look for halal foods we are often limited to foods that are exotic for us), we adopt a completely different culture (if someone comes to islam with arabs, they are taught to be like an arab, through pakistanis then become pakistani, and so forth) we stop many of our social activities (drinking, clubbing, partying, etc.) and really need support from the musim community that in many cases isn't there, and sometimes we get just the opposite. i remember that there used to be rumors that i was just a government agent trying to infiltrate the mosque, others who convert before marriage have people saying that they only converted for this purpose. I was always taught that once a person accepts shahada, that it, you cant question their motives. One time I heads a scholar say "historically people have converted to islam for many reasons, but the important question isnt why they come to islam, rather what keeps them." and i agree with this, muslims like to boast about how so many people are converting to islam however nobody ever considers how many converts end up leaving, and it's sad to say that some of us are even chased away by the muslims themselves.

there needs to be some kind of support mechanisms in the muslim community for converts. when somebody takes shahada, dont just congradulate them and be on your way. they just gave up their old ways and need a friend. don't bombard them with fiqh, or confuse them with which groups or sects to be aware of, they need something much simpler, a friend! someone who is sincere about them and has genuine concern. get to know them, get their phone number and call them sometime, especially if it's been awhile since you've seen them! invite them to your home, to your social events. some converts who are still living with their parents get thrown out of their homes for accepting islam, then when they go to the mosques they are told, that's too bad we'll pray for you. ok, pray for them but take some action as well, there's a hadith that muslims are taught to first fix things with our hands, hating injustice in our heart is the weakest of faith, i've heard of a program in canada that provides shelter to converts who are kicked out of their homes for converting, but these programs are extremely rare.

When a person accepts shahada they are fresh as a baby right? well it takes a community to raise a child.

Alhamdulillah I have found this path where the situation is much better for converts, and I think that this is why I see so many when I visit our dergahs. When I go to other mosques, I might find one or two at most. Sufism really embodies the good things we were taught about islam before converting that most mosques lack.

Allah has guided me to this path and alhamdulillah, and I'm not saying any of this to complain and yes, some of these things I mentioned are extreme examples, but this is a topic that is very important for me and these are things that need to be considered and please know that these are my thoughts and if I said anything good then it is from Allah, if i said anything bad then it is from myself and I seek forgiveness from it.

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Permalink Reply by Rabi'a on March 26, 2009 at 6:09pm

Al hamdulilah this is so true. Converts are like babies. Not only are they kicked out of homes, if they are older converts their children may not want anything to do with them or they loose their grandchildren. I really support the idea of safe houses or something for converts that need it. This is something a brother or sister can do who has the space, and the time can do. What good thoughts and wonderful ideas. Shukran to Dena for starting the discussion off and Shukran to you two brothers for adding much needed insight.

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Permalink Reply by khashba rahla on March 27, 2009 at 9:52am

Assalam Alaykom wa Rahmatullah!

MashaAllah Sis Rabi'a this topic has proven to be very important to discuss and elhamdulillah Mawlana - Allah bless him and give him long life ameen - who authorized this website and provided a category specially for converts to express these needs and concerns and all the feelings attached to it. Now we see more wisdom coming from it. And thank you for allowing us to learn more about these issues to be more sensitive to others' situations. I think its something very important for all mureeds to understand where one another is coming from, whether converted muslim or raised muslim.

MashaAllah Bro Jawad you gave really good ideas we can implement in our lives to help our brothers and sisters adjust. I think it's probably the most valuable thing we can give one another. Look in our Tareeqa our Grandshaykhs Allah bless them ameen explained: "Our Tareeqa is the way of association and the blessing is in gathering together". (i probably messed up the translation sorry!) So offering friendship like you said, Bro Jawad is exactly what our Shaykhs want and makes them happy and inshaAllah from their happiness we may receive those blessings.

And as someone who is not a convert i can tell you we learn so much from that friendship. Just as you, Sis Amatullah mashaAllah eloquently stated the converts have such beautiful journeys to share with us and lessons of resilence and perserverance to learn from! So we see from that that it is a two way street. It's not "o let me help you because i'm up here and you're crawling". SubhanAllah which one is the one crawling if someone overcame every obstacle just to make shahada and the other one lazy doesn't even understand the gift that was placed on their lap from birth they don't even see it or recognize it even. (i'm speaking about myself only so nobody take offense to my words please!) So we can give that much needed friendship and support and in return if we are humble enough we may learn things we may not have been able to experience on our own journey. So speaking from a non-convert perspective, we also receive so much from extending a hand and a smile :)

So elhamdulillah wa shukrulillah for our Shaykhs in our tareeqa - Allah give them long life ameen - for putting us all together to lean on and help each other and if we're lucky enough learn and progress from looking thru each others' eyes. I know these are personal questions that you don't have to answer but if you two or anyone else can share something of your stories with us we'd love to hear :)) Maybe in a different topic page if you like i dunno

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Permalink Reply by Catherine Connell on March 27, 2009 at 7:10pm

As-Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah,

Dear Sisters and Bros.,

Heard you were calling all converts. Alhamdulillah.

Here I am, (just a negative zero) trying for a closer connection to the Divine presence. To always be in association with the near ones.

I converted, submitting my will to/toward the will of Allah (saw) just over 2 Ramadans ago, took Bay'aa with my Sheikh As-Sayyid Nurjan Mirahmadi (in Vancouver Canada) devoted servant of the Sultan of Saints Mawlana Grand Sheikh Nazim and Mawlana Sheikh Hisham.

May Allah(saw) bless them all, Eternally.

Any questions on this topic I'll try to answer, insh'Allah.

Catherine




What you most want,
what you travel around
wishing to find,
lose, as lovers lose themselves
and you will find.

Fariduddin Attar (1142-1220)

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Permalink Reply by Rabi'a on March 27, 2009 at 7:42pm

Catherine, Welcome!
Please share whatever thoughts or ideas you have. Mabruk on your Shahada and Bayaa.

Rabi'a

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Permalink Reply by khashba rahla on March 29, 2009 at 12:31pm

Assalam Aalaykom wa Rahmatullah Sis Catherine!

MashaAllah Congratulations on Shahada and bayat sis! Have you been to the Sufi Meditation Center? InshaAllah i wish one day i get to go there. Shaykh Nurjan has so much wisdom from Mawlana mashaAllah .. his video on the secrets of whirling that Bro Jawad posted blew me away mashaAllah. By the way i love the poetry you post mashaAllah very deep :)

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Permalink Reply by Maryam Noor Rodriguez on March 30, 2009 at 10:37pm

assalam alleikum wr wb,

Elhamdulillah that I was for sure guided to Islam, and to Sheikh Nazim. I keept on consantly praying for the truth as well as to find good people that would teach me Islam not just by words, but by actions. I came across those people whom at that time I didn't know they were people of tasawwuf, but just one month of living among them gave me complete certainty in my heart that Islam was the truth no matter what happened. Their dhikr made my heart dance with joy, their modesty made me feel ashamed, and with their care they made me feel like I was one of them. It was simple things like putting food on my plate before they even put it on their babies plate, giving me beautiful hijabs, also books, by smiling, encourageing, not judeing, using positive words to correct, so on.

When I traveled around I realized omg! how special such people are where is the dhikr in the masjids as there was dhikr in theirs. Why others fought during Ramadan for food in the masjid how different it was. Where were the gentle words instead of emberassing infront of others.

Thats when i came to realize that the communities where i felt the true Islam blooming were among the people of sufism. So from now on when ever I hear someone who has taken shahadah I tell them ask ALLAH to put the tools in your life that will guide you closer to HIM, and make dua that you meet wonderful Muslims that will show you the real Islam ameen.

Theres basicaly no words that can describe my experience when I got to go to Cypruss and meet Mawlana may ALLAH GIVE HIM LONG LOOOOOOONG LIFE I realy wish i could give him my years of life for what he gave me! Islam gave me the path to life sheikh gave me my soul.

Someone once told me learn from others what do to, but also what not to do so if your a revert or seen how people are treated badly that should encourage us to do the exact opposite and treat people as if your taking their souls from the fire with each action and remember being non muslim is a living torment in that darkness.

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Permalink Reply by Rabi'a on March 30, 2009 at 10:59pm

ASAK Maryam
What wonderful, wonderful words. So well put. "Someone once told me, learn from what others do...good or bad"
Allah guided you to write this because I got so much from it as a convert, or revert myself. So often I hear the Shaykh say, " The people around Shaykh Nazim or Shaykh Hisham are those who need healing or help" or he will say, "Sometimes they act crazy, LOL, forgive them" I know what he means. Anyway, Al Hamdulilah when we find the right way it changes your life. Insha allah I will get to Cypress one day, if not, its certainly not intended by Allah, but again Insha allah.

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Permalink Reply by Rabi'a on March 30, 2009 at 11:40pm

Bashir I almost cried reading your words about how that/those persons have been treated. Astafurallah. I have seen this too that even brothers and sisters in Tareeqa are not always kind. We are humans and we are fallible even though we are exposed to the Most Excellent Shaykhs and teaching. Everyone does not absorb the same, and everyone is not of the same heart. I pray that Allah forgives those who have said words that hurt. I know as a convert I would get things wrong and sometimes people would say things about my clothes, my Salat, etc etc. There was one sister who consistently would make me feel better she would say, "Allah wants this to be easy" and I got that. I really did understand that something good should not feel bad. I suppose the bottom line is when we see someone take Shahada we should not just as someone said, pat them on the back and leave, but to say, "Call me, or do you need help learning prayers and how to do Wudu?" We have to step up more often, this is how we'll get Islam to shine more. And to stop being superstitous and ignorant about our own religion. I would pray that if a child died no one said hurtful things, but we know that all kinds of things happen. For anyone who isn't a convert, or who has been in Islam a while, reach out after Shahada and adopt a convert. Thanks brother Bashir for trolling the site and helping converts. JAK

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